AstroOwl
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Posts posted by AstroOwl
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You still can be lucky enough to find a trading post which buys them. No guarantee, though :)
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A nice idea of having some marking for that. Dunno, though - if someone haven't seen this post, DTU would say nothing to him. Maybe just say "Beta" in title? I guess i'll do both.
I was flying the Alligator and switched to Beta Branch... YIKES that hurt my head... took me two days of tweaking (Have I mentioned how much I hate designing ships?) to make it playable again, looks like crap now but flies in a way I can make work.
I've redone Alligator with new thrusters, now it rotates even better that pre-patch one :)
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AFIK Stations use the values that were in productionsindex when they were created, so changing that file won't change any already existing stations, only newly created ones.
This was the answer, thank you. Altering properties of productionindex.lua made new factories use new values.
Now i'm wondering how do i renew sector stats =D
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Targeting Cards are used in production of Targeting Systems (Targeting System factory).
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[...]
My bad, of course: for something restricting rotation speed and using stress on crew as explanation, "inertial forces" would be better term.
But, whatever, maybe i said it wrong way, so i must clarify: imo, gameplay comes first.
If we have a suitable explanation for a gameplay change - good.
We don't? Well, better to not explain that change at all, than to explain it in an obviously unfitting way.
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Did it by editing XML; if you are interested, look for index of blocks : 50 is shield generator, 51 energy container, 52 generator, 55 hyperspace core :-)
That's useful info, saved me the time of figuring that out by myself. Thanks for updated ship =)
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Bad builders complain about new mechanics, good builders rebuild their ships so they are even better then before :-) well done sir o7
Thanks =) Complains are not so surprising, it's not necessarily sing of a bad builder - but it is important to show, imo, that it's not the end of creativity, but just a new environment for one. So that good builders will not be discouraged by changes =)
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As for anyone talking about realism and crews dying to excessive rotation or acceleration forces, please stop. We have force turrets, shields and hyperspace drives and so on. We can only assume that there are ways to protect the crews from such things in Avorion's universe. This talk should be about balance and fun gameplay.
Last sentence is the most important one, i agree with it.
Gameplay need some means of restricting and G-forces are plausible explanation for why restrictions are there? Okay, G-force it is.
Gameplay don't need such restrictions? Good, in that case ships have, ehuuum, inertia dampeners and G-forces are not an issue.
I won't defend the idea of G-forces just for the sake of realism, it's not a sim.
G-forces, as any other phenomena, is just a way of justificating desired gameplay changes or moving towards desired gameplay, be it hard, easy, casual, hardcore, realistic, arcadish - whatever. Nothing more.
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Err, is there anything special you have to do to get the game to update, or am I just stupid? Client is still on 0.10.2 r7448. Tried looking to see if there was a "nightly" build to opt into, but nothing there.
Pick "Beta, newest changes" in Beta-verisons tab of Steam, in game properties.
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I've redone the Alligator for new beta thruster mechanics. Here is the stats for 7-slot version:
Standart version is of Trinium and Xanion, but i also added Trinium + Avorion, in 7,10, and 12 slots variants.
Link for the xml files:https://www.dropbox.com/sh/01oly918cub1xxf/AAD4XAxncJcsNseTnRqCf726a?dl=0
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I would personally vote against rotation buffs. Some artificial buffs to reduce sliding? Yeah, probably. More rotation? no pls. Well, probably non-linear calculation of momentum (easy to get to, say, 0.25 rotation, but hard to increase it further). That might work.
Almost every ship I've looked at in this beta has significantly less Yaw and Pitch. Like roughly half. Roll is less, too. Further, Brake Thrust seems identical to before. Edit: Brake thrust may be about the same on certain small-ish ships. But it is significantly less on some large ships. On AstroOwl's Alligator it went from 57.4 to 12.5.
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I'm thinking that this is because it's such a huge, HUGE ship and that size affects how severely this patch's gimp to Thrusters affects a ship. I say this because AstroOwl's Alligator is a rather large ship and it ended up with nearly zero Yaw/Pitch/Roll thanks to this update. (See below.)
Alligator was made with abusing terrible thruster layering mechanics. If you try such ship in Beta, then yes, it is percieved as nerf.
But if you build the ship in a way good for Beta mechanics, and then try it in stable, ship would also get "crippled".
This change is not "nerf", it's just another, much more sane approach to creating ships. Attempting old approach in new mechanics, and vice versa, would end badly.
I've just redone Alligator for new mechanics (Link to the post). Changes compared with old Alligator in stable branch:
Thrust: 42.4 -> 59.8
Br. Thr: 57.4 -> 66.5
Yaw: 0.11 -> 0.27
Pitch: 0.18 -> 0.23
Roll: 0.31 -> 0.35
Improved dynamics of the ship. In every aspect.
At the expense of: Hull: 213K -> 180K.
Yeah, thrusters now take space! That is really terrible(no). Mainly because we are so used to possibility to achieve high rotation/braking with almost no volume dedicated for thrusters.
Achieving high brake thrust required a lot of space (partially achieved by reducing engines volume), but rotation was rather easy to achieve.
I don't think we need more rotation buffs, tbh. Most of the thrusters volume was dedicated to brake speed.
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Currently it takes an enormous amount of thruster space to get even 0.8 points. Trying to find a volume / area that works best is pretty hard, you still end up with a ton of thruster space being used on a ship. Thrusters got nerfed hard from 10.3 also.. my 1-1.2 went to 0.3. So anyone playing 10.2 with full 2.0 rad.. probably drop to 0.1-0.2 by 10.4 lol
Personally.. I don't care much for realism of massive ship being like an interceptor.. honestly it was pretty fun lol. We are making ships from blocks.. we should be able to make huge ships that are also great at moving around if we can afford it. It's a lot of fun for me personally. Let other space games act like big ships are suppose to be sluggish, let this game allow for creation without frustration :)
Well, i don't care much about realism, look from just creative and aesthetic point of view, don't want this game to be a hardcore sim...
And i LOVE the fact that big ships can't easily be rotated ar 1-2 rad/s anymore. That was terrible. I was just trying to get decent braking thrust and ended up with terrible feeling of a "battleship" rotating with speed that would kill all its crew.
For me, new situation is "creation without frustration".
That's just my point of view, of course.
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Tested the newest (w/directional thrusters) version. Wonderful! It handles very well, stops fast. Even when i upscaled it up to 15 upgrslots, it still had 0.2/0.12/0.12 rotation and its braking thrust and strafe thrust is still high.
[screenshot w/15 slot version stat behind spoiler]
"Large" version is an overkill, of course. No wonder it turns slowly, but, let's face it, such large ships aren't even needed. 15 slots version would serve as a good and impressive all-in-one (trading, fighting, etc) flagship for lategame.
There is one thing left to desire, and that is: generators/shields/hypercores made of Xanion or Avorion. (All blocks of one material can be replaced with their analogues of another material via xml editing, but this thing is all Trinium, so it's not that easy: no need to replace all Tri blocks with Avo blocks, as Avorion hull is not so suited for Executioner style).
I mean, it would be so cool to fly such ship in endgame, but in that case, some internal things are better working if they are Avorion.
It would also be cool to have Avorion "turret hardpoints" block, but.. that would go against Executioner style, once again. Dunno, maybe it's possible to find a couple of places where it would be suitable to place Avorion hull to allow Avo turret placement.
But the really beneficial stuff would be upgrade of internal systems.
TL,DR: Great ship, sir. Handles well in new mechanics, i'm impressed =)
P.S. look at that crew capacity! that's the most badass passenger shuttle in existence, i think =D
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Ah yes, i misread you.
Cap on acceleration based on G-forces: certainly no. Also, it makes no sense that it is dependent on mass or size in any way, as stated above. 10G of acceleration is 10G in the ship of any mass.
Rotating with 0.5 rad/s on a 100 m "lever" and 0.5 rad/s on a 1000m lever yields you different linear movement, however, so this is where big ship is not the same as small one.
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I agree on that: There would be nice to have some ship size dependent soft or hard cap on rotation speed so that big ships can't be as fast-rotating as small ones
I don't think it is really needed to buff thrusters at the same time, though.
Other than that, yeah, i agree. Probably though it should be (instead of mass) dependent on either volume or "longest axis length". Not necessarily implenmented via G-force, physical explanation might be different (on none at all, there is no explicit explanation for strange speed vector redirection when thrusting mechanics, but most people seem to not care that much).
Subjectively, i just dislike the situation when i try just to achieve decent braking and i end up with capital ship rotating like it's 3 meters long. Comes to the situation that i place thrusters close to CoM on purpose, just so that i won't end up with disgustingly (from aesthetical POV) high rotation speed.
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AFIK Stations use the values that were in productionsindex when they were created, so changing that file won't change any already existing stations, only newly created ones.
That's actually much better than nothing, thanks, i'll check that
My suspicion is that the actual values of most game mechanics are baked into the executable, and this production table is just a convenient way for scripts to look up the values without having to query an actual class instance.
about this - seems that i'm too stupid to get this. Like, in which cases do factory production scripts address .exe and in which they address productionsindex? If they are looking up the values in productionindex, why changing it don't change anything?
Thanks for the help, anyway, i just need to learn about all this beforehand, it seems.
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I must miss something, because stacked thrusters still produce more thrust than a thruster block of the same size of the stack. I just tested that out yesterday, on the latest beta branch of course.
It's not a big amount of difference, but definetly matters on large ships a lot.
They don't produce more thrust overall anymore. Stacked thrusters produce more thrust in a specific direction, but lower thrust in other directions. If you would compare only the braking thrust, then sure, it is benefit, but you are sacrificing something in the way actually. And you can't get as much benefit as you want anymore.
Already talked about it in this post: http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,1797.msg9087.html#msg9087
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This, sir, is REALLY impressive. Not a purely decorative replica, like some detailed replicas unfortunately are, but a really playable ship!
Nice braking thrust, considering that it is for new thrusters (after "nerf") - it should be scaleable without strong maneuverability loss.
I personally think such fast rotation speed is even too much for a capital ship, but.. that's my subjective opinion. Would be nice if devs made achieving fast rotation harder than achieving high braking thrust, so that capships could brake reasonably without being too fast-rotating.
Cargo bay is big enough for not-very-high-volume trading, and enough for accommodating all that turret factory ingredients for weaponry you are assembling for this warship.
I like it.
It's good how now, with thrusters scaled by volume, upscaling the ship don't completely cripple its maneuverability.
By the way, you can automatically fill ship with minimal crew by using this "/crew fill" script from Aki: http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,830.0.html
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Excellent ship design; nice work in keeping the block count low as well
If I were to fault it in anyway, would be the manouverability. Maybe find somewhere to add flattened thrusters to increase yaw/pitch/roll
Thanks =) Yeah, it could have been more maneuverable, but with thruster-slicing system i always feel like i'm cheating. I mean, any ship can be made very nimble, but i feel like... it's not right, so i have to stop somewhere. Would be better w/new thruster mechanics where thrusters would actually require some space.
Also AstroOwl, im looking forward to whatever comes out of that lovely designer brain of yours and if i may make another request. Do you have any ideas for a light explorer type ship. Would prolly need slots for hyperspace upgrade, but part from that i imagine even a small 1 or 2 slot one would be perfect. I tried designing one but i cant seem to be able to build small. What I'm kinda looking for is thus FAST and agile as heck basically.
Yeah, thought about it, but if you really are on an exploring spree, you need at least radar(deepscan) upgrade + object detector + lowering HS cooldown to minimal amount, so i'm more inclined towards 5-6 slots domain. Good idea overall, might be useful for those who want to make money by selling asteroids and finding secret stashes.
By the way. Even the 12 slot version still moves like a dream.
Well, i dunno, wouldn't call that a dream, but i glad you like it =)
But ultimately I am chomping at the bit to see what you do next.
Working on big (30 000 + cargo space) cargo hauler, balanced for new thrusters. Still working on details.
By far the best ship on this forum. Well balanced, fast, and very strong.
Can you make a late/end game version of any ships with avorion blocks? I swapped out all the outer blocks, but can't access the inner ones
Thanks =) I made versions with all-avorion functional blocks already, need to update the first post. I haven't replaced trinium thrusters, crew quarters, etc, since it changes nothing except giving much more mass and slightly more HP.
Link for the folder with different variants (upgrade slot count and materials: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gcib2tsb2x8tj55/AABkXZ5bCYYXDOmGlu4G3Y1Va?dl=0
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yeah i know, seems a cheap way to solve the problem tho
No need to set it on zero. I set it to 0.1 in server.ini and die from asteroids as often as from enemies (never, that is).
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Last I checked this was about acquiring Avorion. You can't even claim sectors what makes you think this a game about building a space empire?
Clear similarities with X3 makes me think that.
Strategic mode implemented into the game even during early access makes me think that.
Possibility to create factories which sustain you with goods makes me think that.
Inability to formally label a sector with your name changes absolutely nothing. Well, example of X3 already have been mentioned above.
And avorion is just a best resource for shipbuilding residing in most dangerous space - and nothing more. It's like saying Space Engineers is a game about acquiring Platinum, or Elder Scrolls is a game about acquiring set of daedric armor, or Warcraft3 is a game about acquiring Minotaurs/griffin riders. Well, you get the point.
P.S. i am against removing crew salary, at least in the current state.
P.P.S re-read my own message, realized it might seem rude. If so, excuse me, that was not my intention. Thing is, there are a lot of things pointing towards the idea of making muiltiple ships, forming if not an empire, but something like corporation, shifting towards strategic play as you progress through the game or want to fufill large-scale tasks.
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One of the solutions for illegal goods is to make your own mine/station in a non-patrolled sector not far from desired turret factories.
Once you get that illegal Warheads, ExpCharges or whatever, go to your station and use it as temporary storage for illegal gods.
The UI of "exchange cargo" allows to transfer just one unit of cargo per click, though, so it can be sometimes easier to swallow the opinion penalty than to do that clickclickclick for hundreds of warheads.
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Any chance you would consider making a mothership version? Basically the same ship but with a massive hangar. Im currently flying the Xanion/Trinium version around and it's just amazing. All i found was that i kinda wanted a tad bit more fighters. Basically i fund my ships by salvaging, so having a bay full with salvaging fighters is ideal for me.
Anyway, damn good ship sir. Best one i flown so far.
Thank you so much, that's good to hear and makes me smile like an idiot =D Really inspires me to something else. But right now i have a lot of RL stuff. Probably in a week or so i would be more capable of doing spaceships. Then i would make something new, probably with more emphasis on hangars and balanced for 11-12 slots initially. That would include using new thruster mechanics, of course =)
Can you make a bigger version with more upgradeslots? In your version we have seven slots. Maybe you can modify to 12 slots? *I dont know how i can make it alone. Sorry...
You can do that by selecting ship from "saved ships", clicking "to Clipboard", then picking just a core block, pressing Ctrl-V, and resizing ship via Q button until you get enough upgrade slots.
This was covered in this thread: http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,1523.0.html
Now, as for the scaled verisons of the ship. I made versions for 8, 10, and 12 upgrade slots, all of them both in Trinium+Xanion and Trinium+Avorion variants. That don't take that much time:
Here is the link to Dropbox folder with XML files for all 6 variants: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gcib2tsb2x8tj55/AABkXZ5bCYYXDOmGlu4G3Y1Va?dl=0
Now, beware:
1. 8-slot Alligator is quite nice and good to use, i even improved it a little over previous variant. However, 10 and 12 slot variants wouldn't have the maneuverability of smaller versions.
2. Once the thruster changes will hit base game (not beta branch) (maybe they even did it already by the time you read it), Alligators would be much worse, all of them. I welcome change to thrusters a lot. Alligator, however, relies on broken thruster slicing mechanics, so it would suffer greatly. So, it would be time for me to finally dump Alligator and make some new combat ship to share. Thanks for your support =)
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I've been playing around with thrusters on the beta and the new formula doesn't seem to achieve the intended results. A cube of thrusters split into two layers now receives a 50% bonus in thrust. A cube split into 4 layers gets a 100% bonus, 10 layers 150% and so on.
That is because thrusters built in such a way are redirecting force from other directions. Their power is volume based, but distribution of power can be governed by shape.
I mean, when you split cube into 4 thrusters facing forward-backwards axis, you get more brake thrust from such array than from a cube, but at the expense of thrust in other directions.
If you split thrusters into very small layers, they would provide almost no thrust in other directions, unlike the old system. So there is a reason not to make ultra-thin slices: you will achieve redirecting of all thruster power to one direction, but you will not get additional power.
Make Turret Factories BUY turrets components
in Suggestions & Idea Voting
Posted
This has nothing to do with "getting op weapons". It's not about turret production, it is about trading.