[Improvements to the AI]

I think we can all agree that the AI in avorion is pretty terrible. It's slow, difficult to use and can be a pain in the ass when trying to get them to do specific things in a sector, particularly asteroid filled ones, without them experiencing pathing issues or not getting in range for mining lasers.

 

My suggestion is that the AI could be improved by "showing" the AI where the front of the ship is and altering it so that it can figure out where it should face to get most/all the turrets to bear without the constantly turning around and shifting and give the ships a set operating range for their shortest ranged turrets instead of their longest ones. Preferably making them go 0.2km closer than would be required for their guns to be in range. or even simply make the ship turn with the turrets like with players do.

 

Figuring out pathing itself could be relatively simple as well. with 5 main points extending from the front of the ship (4 furthest corners + centre of gravity) like the antenna on ants and giving them a 5-10 second activation and a 3-5 reaction (5-10 seconds until collision involves slowing down slightly and 3-5 for when they're about to hit it) or something similar.

My point being, there needs to be drastic improvements to ship AI.

 

[Ship and Station Encounter overhaul]

19 minutes ago, - Cy - said:

I dont want to dictate the details of how to achieve the requested change of this idea. So to me it is generally better in my opinion to leave the devs a lot of room to implement their own vision of this idea incase this idea makes it into the game 😃 

yeah that's probably a better idea than mine. 

[Ship and Station Encounter overhaul]

1 hour ago, - Cy - said:

Currently as the player travels closer to the core it is most beneficial to build bigger ships both because it can hold more upgrade slots and because npc ships become bigger too. This causes small npc ships to simply vanish on the journey to core which is quite sad. On the other hand the player never gets to see big ships early on either and therefor does not get any reason to build big ships early on usually.

I would like to have this relation changed so that we always see a good mix of both big ships and small ships. No matter how far away we are from the core. However there should always be many small ships among only a few big ships since big ships are expensive in theory so they are harder to come by.

This change would add more diversity to the game and encourage the player to build fleets with a mix of both smaller ships and bigger ships. Also with this change would help with the visualization in a change of sizes.
Stations should also be adressed in this change. Other than giving a station more hp and shields there is in my opinion no reasonable explanation as to why station become bigger when travelling closer to the core.

In order to not make big ships like battleships and dreadnaughts look stupid because they are only armed with chainguns and other short range weaponry in the early stages of the game at least cannons should be enabled as a dropable weapon type for all distances from core.


The common usage of capital ships for siege or reinforcement of bases or given areas while small ships would be the regular ship type to find e.g. in patrols  or for raids from a pirates point of view.
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Maybe small ships will require a change to remain usefull next to big ships but as with all the other Ideas this suggestion is less a "copy and paste" suggestion and more a rough direction for a change

I have uploaded a screenshot of personal design that makes a change in size visible from left to right which gets completly lost during gameplay since smaller ships are replaced by bigger ones and npc ships behave the same. Like this it does not really feel like my ships really increase in size
 

you know, it might also be interesting if smaller ships warped out when at a complete disadvantage. Although I'm not overly sure how possible that would be.

[Station idea: Hospital stations.]

1 hour ago, FuryoftheStars said:

I'm sorry if I was coming across as argumentative or anything.  I was just stating my opinion on the subject, and then we started going back and forth attempting to defend our positions.  It is just my opinion.

yeah, i think i was coming across a little argumentative myself, sorry.

[Station idea: Hospital stations.]

24 minutes ago, FuryoftheStars said:

Whoops, bit fast there.  You got me while I was editing my other post.

I agree.  Which is why I haven't voted on it.

righteo, my apologies.

[Station idea: Hospital stations.]

1 minute ago, FuryoftheStars said:

You could still do this without the need of dedicated hospital stations.

Hospital ships, on the other hand, I can kind of see, but they'd be pretty rare and not always available for this kind of stuff (thinking of like how the US Navy has 2 main ones: the Mercy and Comfort).  They'd also be more for (in my mind) humanitarian aid from one faction to another where the other maybe struggles in this regard or just came under massive pirate attack and is overwhelmed, or may occasionally travel to very remote regions of the faction's territory where supplies are probably harder to get.

ngl, this strays very far away from my original idea and puts it in a state where it would barely add enough features to be viable for an update.

[Station idea: Hospital stations.]

 

1 hour ago, FuryoftheStars said:

You're thinking in terms of the player.  First, again, with the size of these stations, how long would it take them to physically transport the patient from where ever they were injured to a hanger/dock?  Remember... Mount Everest sized.  (If it helps any, too, if you ever watched Babylon 5, at 5 miles long, that station was just slightly shorter than Mount Everest is tall.)  You'd then also have to have a shuttle/ship already there, or deal with the wait time of getting one there.  Second, we get a lot of conveniences in travel cause otherwise we would grow bored and not play.  But if all the benefits we have were "true" within the Avorion universe?  WTF is holding all of these factions back from colonizing every sector??

 

Also, as I said, the degree of the injury they could deal with may vary from place to place.  Maybe equipment docks wouldn't have the facilities for someone giving birth, but habitats would, or a casino may not have facilities to take care of industrial/chemical accidents, but a factory would, etc.

the degree of injury always varies, sometimes a place simply cannot cater for a person.

And what about conflicts with ships? pirates could destroy a ship and then no one would survive because there is no one there to save them except for the player. And hospital ships could still warp in and try to save these people.

I'm just thinking about the gameplay elements this could add and how it would help with reputation gain, and how there could be these hospital stations where crew are dropped off by players for rep and lore wise they are used to help conduct S&R operations. It'd just help give a better urgency, hospitality and humanity element to the game.

[Better crew mentality/AI]

1 hour ago, FuryoftheStars said:

No.  Sometimes you can have a strike that doesn't go any further than that other than straight quitting.  Sometimes you can have a mutiny that just straight happens.

i think it'd really end up depending on where you are. Perhaps they would be more likely to abandon the ship if there were in a sector with other ships or stations in it, and more likely to do a mutiny outside of civilised sectors.

[Better crew mentality/AI]

On 7/11/2021 at 1:11 PM, FuryoftheStars said:

In the case of a failed mutiny, sure.  But what I was thinking of was more of a strike, really.

wouldn't a strike be the first sign of a mutiny?

[Station idea: Hospital stations.]

On 7/11/2021 at 1:10 PM, FuryoftheStars said:

Actually, yes.  For same sector, I'd expect them all to chip in with shuttles.  For another sector, I'd expect other ships to bring the survivors back, off loading as they can.  Assuming they even bother to go looking.

 

I think you're really under estimating the size of these stations and ships in game.  Like I said, they would not be able to quickly transport the sick and injured to a whole other sector.  Each station would need medical facilities big enough (and potentially spread out enough) to deal with their relative populations.  Now would I expect every medical facility on every station and/or ship to be able to deal with anything and everything?  No.  In that case, they find the next nearest facility within the station or in another station that can.  It's all just like hospitals as they exist now.  Thinking of a station that is pure medical... that's like having a hospital the size of or bigger than Mount Everest.

I'm not sure a station would have adequate means of taking care of seriously injured patients though. And given how short of a time it takes a ship to travel between sectors it'd only take 2 or 3 hospitals at most per faction to satisfy their needs.

[Better crew mentality/AI]

On 6/28/2021 at 9:17 AM, FuryoftheStars said:

I kind of like this, but I would want the mutiny to be a chance of happening vs guarantee if the conditions are met.  If the chance for mutiny doesn't occur, then they either refuse to work or leave.

Perhaps the crew might steal fighters and shuttles to make a get away? 

[Station idea: Hospital stations.]

On 6/28/2021 at 9:27 AM, FuryoftheStars said:

Actually, I rather think that medical/hospital centers would already be on existing ships/stations.  It'd be more bothersome to have to wait for the "ambulance" shuttle to show up and then transport the patient(s) back, then just simply transport the patient(s) to the medical center already on ship/station.  In reality, this may depend some on vessel size, but I think it's unnecessary and actually more out of place to have whole hospital stations which then patients have to be transported to.

Yeah, but would those stations really have the resources to go out and find ships in distress and the capacity to deal with the large numbers of patients that came as a result of pirate or xsotan attacks?

[being able to put decals or emblems on ships (stickers)]

My idea here is pretty simple, being able to insert .png files into the game to be used as stickers and applied onto ship/station structures to more easily add depth without putting strain on polygon/block count. 

 

I'm pretty sure a few people have experienced the frustration of putting in hours to create a symbol, greeble or decal on a ship to make it really stand out among the rest only to have their block count rise to the point where their computer could no longer handle it. So the ability to apply a sticker onto the surface of a ship much like how one would apply a turret would really aid in the game's overall performance and make everyone's lives a little easier.

The way turrets are able to be placed on a ship at any angle could mean that a similar code code be used to apply these stickers and also make the workload for the devs a lot less thus making it easier to implement and the ability to apply artistic flair such as graffiti or a flag would give ships a more immersive feel to the builders wishing to construct a ship seemingly controlled by pirates or a carrier that truly seems like it belongs to a militia. It could also aid in allowing builders to add weathering to a ship to help it look like it'd been through the ages.

Honestly, I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement. But I am sure that if it could be it'd help the game in both performance and style choices.

[Better crew mentality/AI]

The current behavior of the crew simply deactivating when not paid or losing morale is utterly unrealistic and illogical even within the game world. The fact that they shut down like robots and wait for their death either stranded in space or under an attack, doing nothing, is unacceptable. So it is proposed to make their behavior a bit more realistic and adding to the sense of immersion and logic in the game. The following adjustments can be made:

- If the crew are not payed on a vessel with more military turret slots/ military gunner slots used than civil than they will be likely to start a mutiny and take over the vessel (effectively starting their own faction). They stop taking orders from you, and in case of a military vessel they first take over the vessel to themselves completely, after a short period of non-restored morale. After that period they either become pirates or go working for the closest military establishment.

- If the crew are not payed on a vessel with more civil turret slots/ civil gunner slots used than military than they will be likely to start a mutiny and take over the vessel except using it for more civil purposes. They retain the ability to flee from a threat, and also are likely to fly to some friendly/neutral station for protection (maybe?). They do not take your orders until they are paid. After a certain period they just disembark to a friendly station leaving the ship floating uncrewed.

- Over time, with earning veterancy the crew become more loyal. Crew who are loyal are less likely to start a mutiny and could help defend the ship if a mutiny occurs. They can withstand longer periods of lowered morale.

- Over time, with earning veterancy the crew also becomes more loyal. Crew who are loyal are less likely to start a mutiny and could help defend the ship if a mutiny occurs. They can withstand longer periods of lowered morale but will also be stronger when taking part in mutiny.

- Mutinies would behave like ship boarding except without the ship needing to be damaged first.

- on board security could also aid in preventing a mutiny from being successful, thus giving use to something that's almost useless in single player.

Stations also have a role within this:

- if profits from them start dwindling. the denial is gradual, they don't just cut loose immediately

- after 2 hours the mutiny begins (so the game can be more alive while still giving time for people to pay the crew)

- if there are more military people the station becomes its own faction

- if there are more civilians they just start gradually leaving it

- the military might also just leave it if they are surrounded by other military stations that are paid and have a much higher military rating (i.e. a station in the middle of your "country" can't found its own faction)

- if the other military stations in the area are not paid as well then they might form their own faction together, taking also the ships in the closest sectors that are not paid as well

Other:

This could be used much like the 2.0 procession power limitations and be an optional feature.

Special thanks to the discord user 'noncom', we both worked hard together in figuring this out.

 

[A better way to copy/paste ship parts.]

Because it is incredibly irritating when stuff like this happens

[Station idea: Hospital stations.]

8 hours ago, MoreChainguns! said:

That sounds really cool!

And it wouldn't require much to add a new station - just a big hologram with a Red Cross emblem on it.

Maybe destroyed ships of any faction you can send a Boarding Shuttle to in order to extract wounded, and then, if you bring them to their faction's hospital, you get a credit reward per crewmember?

Kinda sounds scummy rescuing someone for money. Perhaps a rep boost?

Although I could see families giving someone a reward whether they want it or not.

[Station idea: Hospital stations.]

Despite the fact medical supplies exist, hospitals do not. In space, I imagine it would be incredibly bothersome and difficult to handle childbirths or surgeries on ship, so you'd need a place where medical professionals could work in order to handle such situations. 

A small thing that could appear are AI shuttles (ambulances) that could travel from these stations to places where battles have been fought, warping in and out of sectors in a bid to find survivors or get on board damaged ships and search for injured people. 

possible mechanics could involve:

passive repairs of AI ships 

missions involving rescuing stranded vessels (more usage for docking blocks) 

more variety in merchandise that could be sold

destruction of hospital stations could result in a rep loss from neighboring factions.