Ohm is Futile

I tend to agree with you, though, I have to admit that I very much understand the appeal of "moar customization!" I'm a dreamer, but I'm also a filthy casual in terms of play time and a block-by-block system would essentially keep me from playing the game. I see your point, as much as I would love to go on crazy theory crafting tangents to create custom weapons and try them out, the added complexity and time investment would also kill it for me. Anyways, as I said, I don't intend to start a debate, I'm just curious of people's opinion on the matter and I have to say that I'm surprised by how one-sided the poll is right now. It doesn't seem to reflect the debate that's been going on around turrets. It's still early, though.

I'll admit, I usually turn safe mode off because it stops me from deleting certain blocks and I often leave it off after that. I guess I should test safe mode more, although I've found it fairly annoying so far because it also prevents deleting certain blocks although they wouldn't result in the ship's destruction. I also use creative mode extensively, but crew is still a problem in creative mode as you simply cannot tell how a ship will perform mobility-wise without crewing at least the engineering department. The greatest issue outside of creative has been to simply upgrade a ship to another material through copying and pasting the design and selecting a different template material simply because you need to remove the old useless copy. It's kind of annoying to switch game mode just for that, although given how frustrating this issue can be, it's certainly better than losing campaign progress.

Meh, I name my ships like this: XYZ-### Name XYZ is an acronym for the series the ship belongs to, which has to do with the purpose it was designed for. ### are numbers, with the first number distinguishing between different ships of the same series. Higher numbers are larger ships. The second number reflects major changes to an existing hull, it's still the same ship, but quite different. The last number is for smaller modifications, upgrades and such. And then the name. Usually I'll pick a word category and go in order of "strength of the symbol". For example, my speedy combat ships are named Gale, Storm and Hurricane, in that order. The first number is also 1XX, 2XX and 3XX, with XX changing with regards to changes, upgrades, or major updates. I sometimes add A, B, C, etc, after the numbers for what I'd call "sidegrades" or basically different options which can't necessarily be considered upgrades from each other.

Major wow. Build more. We'll find a way to finance you if we must, right? right people?

couldnt it be simplified? game spawns x number of ships, expecting them to take x amount of time to kill, you beat them in 20% of that time, game spawns next wave of ships with counters to specific weapon types. the foundation of this seems to already be there in avorion with the holo/shiny/armour vs plasma/laser/kinetic. no idea if they are used that way yet though. is my idea of an adaptive system possible? if not i know to drop it and try to think of something else. The problems are: - With an adaptive system, the player may not feel like he or she is progressing in the game. This can be very boring. - What do you base your adaptations on? If the player upgrades his ship and enemies scale with that upgrade, what happens to ships that were already generated? Everything in the system but the player gets wiped out by the next Xsotan attack? - What if the player uses captains to command smaller ships and whatnot? Do things scale only based upon the player-controlled ship? The sum of his assets? What if the player leaves some ships behind, does the scale change? - What if the player has a huge freighter with little weaponry? Do enemies scale off his volume? His mass? His omicrons? If the player has a tiny ship with lots of good weapons, do enemies scale off his volume/mass/omicrons? It's impossible to work with. You have to stick with more radical options, such as a difficulty slider and such. You can implement variety in combat styles, though. This can create a different challenge for the player as one ship design may be suitable for one situation, but not another, even if the baseline difficulty is the same as right now.

Probably a lot of people would benefit. Also a word about how placing thrusters further from the center of mass will result in greater rotation speeds, ton for ton. There's a lot that would benefit from being explained, better, but then again, the game is actively being worked on and things will change.

Basically what the titles says. Happens to me fairly often when I want to create a new design around an existing ship to avoid losing my crew (which then dies, because the ship is considered destroyed). You go about your business, making dysfunctional cool-looking stuff or making very functional crappy-looking things and you decide you don't want this big chunk anymore, so you use the box selection tool and delete a bunch of blocks and *POOF* your ship has been destroyed, you have been kicked out of build mode and you respawn, losing all your stuff. Removing stuff a few blocks at a time doesn't seem to help. I've tried taking apart the bits I don't want anymore in smaller chunks and it gets very unpredictable as to whats an acceptable removal or what results in your ship being destroyed. Note: I never removed all the blocks. It also happens even if there is technically more mass/volume left than I am removing at one time. I'm not sure what causes it, perhaps the game considers the ship has lost more than its total pool of HP, but then when is the pool of HP calculated? When you enter build mode? When you add blocks? Once every X ticks? It's weird and very frustrating when it happens.

My concern is actually that there isn't going to be a benefit to it unless it's quite volume/efficient, in which case it becomes hard to balance in the sense that "why wouldn't I install a cloak on my ship?" If it's not very volume-efficient, then is it going to be viable? For fighting, what's stopping me from pointing my turrets at where the shots are coming from and wrecking you because you don't have as much shield/armor because you spent X amount of volume on cloaking. Even if I don't see you, I could shoot you, so what's the point anyway? I can't figure out a whole lot of other reasons why you'd wanna cloak and how it would make the game more interesting. Perhaps with a high alpha/range weapon setup and a highly mobile ship you could uncloak, volley a ship, cloak and move to a new position to fire again and thus avoid return fire against ships with low range/sensor power. It's about the only possibility I see.

Alright, first, I'd like to point out that apparently Koonschi has decided to work on turret blueprints. Details are unknown as far as I know, correct me below if I'm wrong. Second, this does not aim to be a debate, but rather a poll to know where people stand. There is an active and detailed debate here: http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,2236.0.html This is simply what I gathered from weeks of reading posts about turrets. This way people know, at least in terms of concepts, what has already been proposed. This avoids repetition and allows people to give their opinion without having to read half a dozen threads and probably close to a hundred posts. Details about each options: Option #1 Diablo-like, A-RPG style mechanics similar to what is already in-game. Basically, voting for this would be the same as saying that you like hunting for equipment and turrets and would prefer to do away with any crafting mechanics. Option #2 For convenience and aesthetics, you would like to be able to choose at least how your turrets look by designing empty shells block by block or through picking a model within a list (list could be expandable through modding and such). Placing these designs would allow you to drag and drop the current RNG-generated turrets into them so that they have those properties, but look better or fit with your ship's style and looks. This could also be dumbed down to placing ghost images of turrets and having an interface to quickly drag and drop turrets onto those ghost images for quality of life regarding changing your loadout. Option #3 This option is essentially what we currently have, with or without tweaks such as "blueprinting" turrets to reproduce RNG-generated turrets at turret factories, having the ability to place ghost blocks that generate slots to drag and drop turrets for easier placement/replacement or rebalancing the current drop/crafting system. Option #4 Turrets would still be separate entities from ships that you can slap on surfaces, but you would have an interface/build mode similar to what we have for ships. Block placement/stats/volume would dictate the stats and then you could put them on your ship for a credit and material cost. The game would need another procedural generation script to outfit NPC ships and to sell pre-made turrets/designs at equipment docks. Option #5 Merge ship building and turret building. You get weapon blocks that affect how it will behave. The best way to illustrate that is to look at "From the Depths". You can go from making the core of your ship a weapon that fires directly forward to anywhere like small turrets with custom firing arcs, range, ammo, damage, fire rate, etc. The would also need another/a new procedural generation script to outfit NPC ships. Again, not posting this to create a debate or discuss details of how to implement each option, but I'm curious as to what our local forum dwellers would prefer. I set the poll to run for a week starting now (March 1st) and set it to one vote max. You can view results after voting, I don't want current results to skew your opinion. Be careful, I did not allow to change options.

Agree 100%. Something that would be nice would be new procedural generation patterns for ships to produce ships with specific qualities and new AIs to take advantage of these qualities, creating diversity and new possibilities beyond bigger = better.

1. ...or shift-click or anything, but yeah an option to "quick-move" items would be good, agreed. 2. It's possible by placing edges back to back. Although, since edges are a thing, I would imagine that diagonals would be possible, at least graphically. That would open more aesthetic options. 3. It's because scaling happens in two directions, which can put objects at half values and make matching them more difficult. It gets better when you start building from higher scale blocks. 4. Stick a pole block, then it works pretty nice. The issue I have though is that sometimes your ship destroy themselves in building mode when you remove too many blocks. Very, very annoying. 5. Turn off "safe mode". Place a block. Remove source block. Save your new base if you want, then you can apply that plan whenever you build a new ship.

Sounds good and fun in theory, how do you balance it in practice? You already have to spend significant amounts of volume on generators, engines, thrusters, shields, etc. How do you balance cloak blocks so that they are both practical, but not overpowered in terms of volume/efficiency? As for the little tidbit on sensors providing a boost to scan/map radar range, I think that's already planned.

I am quite impressed by your ability to produce ships with such details and such practical stats. Those are gorgeous, realistically-sized and priced. Love what you did to mount turrets, too. Much impressed. One caveat, though, that braking thrust, *takei voice* oh my... I mean, yeah, you can turn the ship around and use your forwards thrust to brake, but with such high top speeds and only above-average yaw/pitch stats... It must be quite the art to utilize that speed and not drift to hell and back when trying to dock... or perhaps I'm just too lazy and need to learn to fly. Absolutely pleasing to look at though.

Slew of updates: Check out the new AMR series for all your trading in dangerous space needs, an upgrade for the Nomad and a new SW design, the Hurricane, a fast 6-system bare sleek military hull! Check it out in the original post. Screenshots:

I like your idea. You still increase profit as cargo capacity increases, but the reduced margin per item makes it less crazy. ...and let's be honest, money can buy you just about anything in this game. I've dabbled with trading and made millions upon millions very early in my game and with little effort. When background simulations hit for player-empty sectors, this kind of fix would be nice I think. It's not entirely related, but I'd like to add that perhaps a "better" script for procedural generation of stations, especially trading outposts and factories would be nice. Right now it's kind of hit or miss with regards to resource availability in the sense that there is very little logic, at least ostensibly, to where which factory is spawned and finding routes can either be laughably easy or an absolute nightmare.

1. Didn't know about that limit, does sound a bit limitative. 4. Yeah, and/or make the Xsotan/pirate attacks less frequent. As it is, I've had Xsotan and pirates chain attack sectors for a fair amount of time even when still near-ish the starting sectors. 5. Agreed that jumping takes a fair bit of time. I don't find it that annoying when you're actually doing something in the sectors you are visiting, but exploration becomes rather painful when you have to wait a fair bit after something you cannot influence. Hyperspace cooldown can be improved though, so no complaint there. 6. That was how it was meant to be, although maybe not exactly to that scale, but Koonschi did want larger ships to "feel" slower. 8. Good idea with being able to buy some colors. Not sure I agree on vibrant, though. I find it hard to paint something and not have it look like some kid had a go at it with crayons. I'd actually like some colors with toned-down contrast and/or chrome effects and such. 10. More better, yes! 11. Sure, why not...

Agreed on the speedometer. Can't wait to try out turning off the autothrusters. All I did was hop on to see if my ships showed a reduction in rotational power, which they didn't. As for gyros, didn't test, but I'm going to hazard a quick guess: It's either: a UI glitch (like directional thrusters mistakenly reporting thrust in directions they can't impact, my money is on this option) or they aren't quite balanced yet due to it being a new block with a new mechanic or it's indeed underpowered. (...or you aren't using enough?)

Numerically you can't... That's why I pointed we need those stats. You know, you can hold left shift and mouse over your own ship to select it. That will show the velocity value, you can then look at that from a complete stop and also compare it to the top bar to see how it measures up with your max velocity. It's not perfect, but it does provide a numerical estimate.

Ohm Industries' quick reference catalog: EC series: jack-of-all-trades EC-301: 5 Slots (121,581$ - 16,810 Titanium 2584 Naonite) EC-302: 5 Slots (158,550$ - 16,894 Titanium 6774 Naonite) EC-303: 5 Slots (217,857$ - 25,121 Trinium) ====================================== SW series: speedy combat ships SW-112A: 3 Slots (29,486$ - 3,844 Titanium 1056 Naonite) SW-112B: 3 Slots (27,361$ - 3,844 Titanium 792 Naonite) SW-113: 3 Slots (38,066$ - 4,900 Trinium ) SW-201: 6 Slots (545,107$ - 26,320 Titanium 46,880 Nanonite) SW-202: 6 Slots (678,687$ - 73,700 Trinium) ====================================== AMR series: multi-role AMR-101: 5 Slots (282,983$ - 14,353 Naonite 17,305 Trinium) AMR-112: 5 Slots (441,714$ - 14,916 Naonite 33,724 Trinium) AMR-113: 5 Slots (506,702$ - 25,728 Trinium 22,912 Xanion) AMR-201: 7 Slots (2,485,351$ - 43,673 Iron 246,088 Trinium) Orignal post@FreddyAVO: There's a link between the individual models and the pictures. They don't work?

-3.1415920

I really doubt balancing matters when you want to strafe. I've never had my ship rotate itself unless I was specifically inputting something that generates yaw. In fact, I would strongly suggest to put your strafing thrusters away from CoM so that they can double up as yawing(and/or pitching/rolling) thrusters. Also, my own personal tip is to break up thrusters that are near the CoM into smaller pieces that don't cut across the CoM. This also increases rotation potential. The only downside is that you have a lot of smaller, weaker pieces around your ship then.

Ohm Industries is proud to present its first line of designs. To be sure you are selecting the appropriate product for your needs, be sure to pay attention to the specs of each schematic and, for quick reference, look for the following tags to help you decide: [spoiler=explaining letter codes]U - Designates a hull which has internal space and/or is made of a single material, convenient for upgrades. U - Designates a hull which may have a little bit of internal space or is made of a single material and could be upgraded with some effort. U - Designates a hull which would likely require severe disassembly and reassembly to be upgraded. C - Designates a hull which was designed for combat. C - Designates a hull which is combat-capable, but not ideal or designed specifically for that purpose. C - Designates a hull which is not meant for combat. For more information, please read the design purposes for each line of ships. Quick buyer's guide: http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php/topic,2306.msg12133.html#msg12133 Dropbox folder containing all the ships: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cxdofu2fyztd2tx/AABe2DgFRfNUeC1ghItcZKlya?dl=0 News: New ship and models in the AMR series! Check out the new Rhino! =========================================== Exploration and Commerce series. (EC) This series was meant for new captains to use as a series of stepping stones to carry them and their dreams further with each iteration. The main features are their low cost, quick flight capabilities, decent generators and, for bigger models, their cargo capacity. EC-1XX Pioneer U C The Pioneer is the first and smallest ship of the EC series. It features no cargo bay, but it is ultra cheap! [spoiler=pictures and xml] Model information: EC-101: Dirt cheap! Made exclusively from iron. XML EC-102: Also dirt cheap, features integrity fields in case you bump into asteroids get attacked. XML EC-103: Bigger, faster, better! XML EC-2XX Prospector U C The Prospector is a modular civilian ship that features a modest cargo bay for captains who want to start trading. The core of the ship is built from eight same-size modules for people who like to tinker with their ships. [spoiler=pictures and xml] Model information: EC-201: Fairly cheap, 100m3 cargo bay, modular. XML EC-202: 50% more cargo and somewhat faster. XML EC-203: Extra power and shields, in case you're suicidal unlucky. XML EC-3XX Nomad U C The Nomad is a significant upgrade from the Prospector, featuring more than three times the cargo capacity! It also features a shield and has been armored in case your journey takes you through unsafe space. [spoiler=pictures and xml] Model information: EC-301: Large cargo bay, ample power, armored and shielded for your safety. (Note the 52% thrust stat, pull out your calculators to figure out the thrust at 130% efficiency) XML EC-302: Adds an expensive useful hyperspace core. XML EC-303: Complete trinium overhaul, with slightly increased crew capacity and hyperspace reach. XML =========================================== Speed Warfare series. (SW) This line is the first to be dedicated to combat. These ships are meant to use speed, maneuverability and an advantageous profile to limit damage and conquer your enemies. SW-1XX Gale U C The Gale is a titanium-based hull, with later iterations integrating naonite for shields. It depends on lateral motion to fight using its superior yawing and strafing abilities to keep its thin profile facing the enemy. The integrity field generators are set up so the front plate shares its durability between its smaller pieces while covering as little of the functional blocks as possible. The side plates are left without integrity field coverage to avoid transferring damage to the center of the hull, which is covered by its own field to avoid more fragile components being destroyed from a bad hit. This ship is meant more for hit and run tactics and light combat. Suggested loadouts would be either high alpha to take maximum advantage of its mobility or independent targeting weapons that let you focus on dodging while keeping the damage going. [spoiler=pictures and xml] Model information: SW-101: Basic Gale hull, made entirely of titanium. Fairly cheap. XML SW-102A: Has two shields modules for extra protection. XML SW-102B: Has one shield module and one power module for more energy-hungry setups. XML SW-111: Revamped SW-101 Gale hull. XML SW-112A: Revamped SW-102A Gale hull. XML SW-112B: Revamped SW-102B Gale hull. XML SW-113: Trinium upgrade. XML SW-3XX Hurricane U C The Hurricane is the largest ship of the SW series and its base design is made of trinium, although a subpar version made of titanium and naonite is available. Just like other designs of this series, the Hurricane is fast and although it is not quite as maneuverable, it is easily the most survivable hull of this line for prolonged fights. Its speed and upgraded hyperspace core makes it the ultimate fast response combat vehicle of Ohm Industries. [spoiler=pictures and xml] Model information: SW-301: Titanium and naonite version for the poor early adopters. Has all the basic features of the Hurricane line, but worse. XML SW-302: Base trinium hull with all the fantastic qualities of the Hurricane. XML =========================================== Armed Multi-Role series. (AMR) The AMR series differs from the EC series in that it integrates combat capabilities as an important asset. Where the EC series is fine for cowards peaceful captains who avoid conflict, the AMR series goes on the offensive. Although these ships will never compete ton for ton with pure military designs, captains will enjoy the ability to deal with pirates and pesky Xsotan incursions with little to worry about, especially if supported by local forces. True to its name, this series features small craft docking bays and a respectable amount of cargo to be the best jack-of-all-trades. You can now trade, mine, salvage and fight all within the comfort of a single captain's seat! AMR-1XX Taurus U C The Taurus is similar to the EC-303 Nomad, except better on almost every front, especially combat. Featuring a large cargo bay, room for a small fleet of salvaging and mining fighters, room for turrets and a fairly strong shield, the Taurus is a perfect entry ship to turn a profit in dangerous space. It is also fairly mobile, not too expensive and has a powerful generator for a ship its size. [spoiler=pictures and xml] Model information: AMR-101: The original Taurus design, made of trinium and naonite. Strong, reliable, practical. XML Model information: AMR-112: This upgrade skips a whole power of 10 on the convention because it is so substantial! Adding almost 25% shield and cargo whilst retaining most of its speed and maneuverability is no joke. This was achieved by removing the engines and bolting on a whole new back section. Also achieves an extra hyperspace reach of 2 sectors and has a more efficient generator. Ohm Industries is not responsible for accidental undocking of the new section and subsequent loss of engines. XML Model information: AMR-113: This upgrade features xanion internals, allowing another extra sector of hyperspace reach and a whopping 50% more shields! Of course, there is also more power at your disposal. XML AMR-2XX Rhino U C Significantly larger than the previous model, the Rhino features a massive cargo container allowing around 5000 units of trade material to be carried around. Despite its larger size, the Rhino remains similarly mobile and features an inertia dampener for superior braking ability. It also has a vastly superior hyperspace core, allowing a baseline reach of 15 sectors. Furthermore, this model also features hangars with a maximum capacity of 64 small crafts, a stock shield capacity of 124,000 HP, a thick armor plating and a mean-looking horn. [spoiler=pictures and xml] Model information: AMR-201: The stock Rhino design, built mostly out of trinium. Requires a fair amount of iron for the inertia dampener. XML AMR-202 Rhino PHIR: The product of a collaboration with Pub Heavy Industries. Major hull revamp along with some functional changes. Please refer to the picture to be wow'd for the exact changes. XML

Looks gorgeous! Looks like it has the potential to be decently functional, although I think it would be better if it was scaled up. That design though. <3

The ship itself is your external force being applied on the turret. Physically applied because it's bolted on. Which is exactly what is currently happening, because there is inertia in the game already and it does apply to turrets.

Turrets move in different directions using motors, rails, gears, axles, you name it which physically bind them to the base, which is physically bound to the hull. This is exactly like your arm's articulation. If you hold your arm still and turn around yourself, your arm won't stay in place, it will rotate with you. Even if you leave it limp, it will rotate with you. At this point, I'm going to assume you're trolling if you don't get it.