Combining Turrets through Research Stations

[Terradoss]

Hiya Koonschi and Team!

 

I've been playing around with upgrading some weaponry through the research station and I thought I'd give you some feedback on my results.

 

N.B - I recognise that gameplay balancing and whatnot is probably a low priority at this point, but I have the information so I thought I'd make a post anyway.

 

N.B.2 - The following information is based on my limited testing of the research system. If there are more substantial results that contradict my findings or if the underlying mechanics of the system are in fact working as intended, then obviously the following post will be of limited value!

 

So here's the situation. I started out with 30x Tech 41 "Exceptional" (yellow) Launcher weapons. These weapons were all identical having been created in the same turret factory. They had the same damage and identical weapon traits. A screenshot of these launchers is included below.

 

http://imgur.com/a/q0UUi

 

I then decided to "upgrade" these through the research station. I made the assumption that since I can't craft Exotic or Legendary Tier weaponry in a turret factory, the logical means of weapon progression would be to craft exceptional tier weaponry and slowly upgrade it over time.

 

At a ratio  of 5:1, I plugged all 30 of my Tech 41 Exceptional Launchers into the research station and got 6 Exotic Launchers back.

 

I have included screenshots of each of the 6 Exotic Launchers I created from this exercise below.

 

http://imgur.com/a/rVIHS

 

As you can see, the results are......confusing and rather disappointing!

 

Each of the exotic turrets I got back seemed to cap out at Tech 33, despite ALL the input turrets having been *significantly* higher than this to begin with.

 

Additionally, whilst SOME of the new turrets had SOME of the same traits as the original turrets, the results illustrate that it was kind of a crapshoot as to what weapon traits one gets when combining turrets in the research station. The exception to this was the auto-firing trait, which seemed to transfer in 100% of cases. Otherwise it seems......very random!

 

Furthermore, the primary stats varied WILDLY on the new turrets. So much so that I really can't see how they could reasonably be construed as having any relationship to those on the input turrets.

 

In practically every instance, I consider that the turrets I got back are inferior to those I used as input turrets. One or two of the exotic turrets could possibly come close when considering the weapon traits I suppose, but its arguable at best as to whether they do, while the majority of created turrets certainly don't, and are not upgrades.

 

As a final test, I took five of the new exotic launcher turrets and combined them in the research station to create a legendary turret! (Ooooh purple!)

 

These are the turrets I combined:

 

http://imgur.com/a/KJenr

 

Aaaaaaand this is the legendary turret I got back:

 

http://imgur.com/a/ei3T7

 

Follows the trend of the previous test in returning a turret that I'd consider to be inferior to those I put in to get it.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I realise that this is probably a gameplay element that hasn't really been developed much at this point. That's OK! But I would like to make the following couple of suggestions for whenever you opt to take a look at the system:

 

- The system should create results that are based on the characteristics of the input turrets, rather than the seemingly random result that occurs now.

 

- Tech level of turrets created should , at the very least, not decrease under that of the input turrets.

 

- Base weapon stats should not be random and should DEFINITELY be an increase over those of the input turrets (Perhaps an increase over the averages if input turrets with variable stats are used? Not sure about this.). We're buying the new turret at the ratio of 5:1, it should represent a significant improvement.

 

- Turrets created should have weapon traits that are reflective of the input turrets (Or select from the pool of traits if multiple types are present on the input turrets). These traits should also numerically increase, for the same reason as the base stats (5:1 ratio).

 

- Also, as a UI consideration for quality of life, if at some point the system is redesigned to accommodate the above, having the interface display the turret that will result from the combining process BEFORE actually having to click the button to combine, would be really useful. Of course if the intention is that players aren't meant to see the result before investing, then this change obviously isn't one to consider.

 

These are just a few observations and suggestions I've made based on the messing around I've done so far. Its worth noting I don't know how things like tech level and weapon stat/trait numerical values are derived, so its entirely possible some of these suggestions would have interconnected results that may require consideration.

 

Thanks very much developer people! Keep up the great work!

[SageThe13th]

Yeah.  The current system only seems to account for type and rarity.  Everything else is rerolled from scratch at the new rarity level.  This works for system chips, but not so much for weapons.  The system could do with the improvements you're suggesting.  Except that last one.  Item combining in supposed to be a gamble.  Items may on a small chance turn out to be worse.  So the game shouldn't tell you what you're going to get ahead of time.

[amimai]

i have not done extensive testing mind you, but in the research station putting in a turret of the level you want 1 material tier above the other turrets allays gives you a turret of lvl+1 and about half the time of the material you wanted and most of the time give out a turret of the same type as the one you put in

 

for example

lvl30 naonite mining

lvl26 titanium gatling

lvl28 iron salvage

 

would allays give a lvl31 turret

often give a mining turret

would occasionaly give a naonite turret

 

maybe you were shoving lvl41 turrets into a lvl33 research station... cause you know that happens

[DoragonKeiyou]

Through my limited testing, I always assumed it was based on what you put in, each trait being set up on a roll table, and it giving you something random.

 

Say you put in 3 items:

 

Naonite Salvaging Turret (With +10% Bonus Efficiency)

Titanium Mining Turret

Iron Chain Gun Turret

 

So the traits you have are:

 

Material:  Naonite, Titanium, Iron

Type:  Salvaging, Mining, Chain Gun

Bonuses:  +10% Eff, Nothing, Nothing

 

Each "trait" has a 1 / X amount to give you that when you research, where X is the amount of items for each part.  So you have a 300% chance to get Naonite, Titanium, or Iron back, no matter type you end up with.  Then it rolls for type, again since there are 3, 33% chance for each.  And lastly, bonuses, where it's only have a 33% to keep it, but 67% chance to lose it.

 

I haven't messed with the research enough to really confirm this though, mostly just self theory.

 

Edit:  So I put in the same exact 5 salvaging turrets and didn't get anything better on them other than the quality.  It picked up two new bonuses, lost it's efficiency bonus, and dealt a bit more damage.  So my theory above is just words now, since it seems more random than anything.

[Terradoss]

maybe you were shoving lvl41 turrets into a lvl33 research station... cause you know that happens

 

I hadn't actually considered this at all. It didn't occur to me that research stations might have their own "level" so to speak and that it would affect the outcome.

 

That might indeed explain the results I got in terms of reduced tech level with the current system.

 

That said, I still think the system would, overall, be more consistent and useful if it were to conform to the principles behind the changes I suggested in the OP.

 

As an aside, its easy enough to tell what Tech Level a Turret Factory is in game at the moment by looking at the tech level of the items you can craft at them.

 

If there is indeed a "Level" attribute for research stations, is there someplace that this is made evident? I can't recall seeing anything anywhere that would've indicated what the "level" of a research station would be.

 

Perhaps the only way to determine this is based on the tech level of items you get out of the research station after the process is complete? I don't like this much, its fairly obfuscatory, but perhaps I've missed something else that would allow the determination of what tech level items a research station would produce without actually having to spend turrets in order to find out?

[Quellcrest]

maybe you were shoving lvl41 turrets into a lvl33 research station... cause you know that happens

 

I hadn't actually considered this at all. It didn't occur to me that research stations might have their own "level" so to speak and that it would affect the outcome.

I think this is right. I started a new creative mode game and gave myself a bunch of legendary tech 100 turrets and went to the first research station I could find. Everytime, they came out level 7 tech. I jumped into a closer to the center sector and found another research station. They came out level 19, every time. So it's either a random tech level per station or the closer to the center the better?

[Gwydion5]

Was coming here to make that comment about the Research Station level mattering. I made 200 tech 33 exceptional laser turrets this morning, warped back home and researched in to reds. They all dropped from level 33 to level 27. Also the tech level only matters for the research station. I took a bunch of the red 27's and re-crafted them at a level 36 research station. They all went up level 36. Also rerolled some purples. But I'm not sure if you want to do 3 or 5. I did 5 and got horrible stats, I did 3 and got decent stats.

[Terradoss]

Was coming here to make that comment about the Research Station level mattering. I made 200 tech 33 exceptional laser turrets this morning, warped back home and researched in to reds. They all dropped from level 33 to level 27. Also the tech level only matters for the research station. I took a bunch of the red 27's and re-crafted them at a level 36 research station. They all went up level 36. Also rerolled some purples. But I'm not sure if you want to do 3 or 5. I did 5 and got horrible stats, I did 3 and got decent stats.

 

Yeah I've tested this some more since and its absolutely correct, the research station has a level.

 

My results with stats and weapon traits other than tech level were still a total crapshoot even on a higher level research station, so that's still an issue. The process is slow and costly enough already, having to create lower tier weapons and upgrade them at a ratio of 5:1. The additional RNG on top just seems unnecessarily punishing.