LordHavoc Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Hi all, After building a few recreations I thought I'd share some of the things I've learned - in the hopes to make everyones ship building easier. 1a] Draw out your plan on paper/art program freehand. Doodle it, thrash it out; get it out of your head and into a form you can see 1b] Then, get that design into a vector based art program that uses grid/snap (I use Inkscape personally because its free). With this, you can easily and quickly make 2d boxes and triangles and trace your design into something that will look similar ingame (You can see an example in my 'O'Neil' thread in this forum) 2] You can full adjust the scaling and grid sizes ingame on the left, use this to fine tune while you build. For ease of use, the grid size should be half the scale size. 3] Use the pallette to resize your whole ship: Say you make a ship that is a fighter size, and it's a good design but too small. Select all the ship and ctrl-c, then open the pallette and paste with ctrl-v. Then you can make a new ship, and using the pallette you can select the template and adjust the size before pasting. *Caution on the blocks you use though, make sure to take note of the template material selector. 4] Centre-of-block option speeds thing up: On the left, the dropdown that has "Local Grid" etc has an option for centre of block. When you have your shape already in place and you need to quickly fill it in, block placement using that option is much faster as you don't need to fiddle with alighment. 5] Design your game ships in creative mode and save the plan. Then in your main game use that plan to replace your current ship: This means you won't need to worry about getting attacked in your main game when you're changing ships. 6] Replacing the default block (no xml editing): Add a few blocks (of the size you want) to the front the starting block. Then turn off safe mode and delete the starting block. Exit build mode, and then re-enter and the centre will now be at the centre of mass of those new blocks. *Can be a bit tempramental, I think there is some kind of mass calculation. 7a] Spinal mount your main thruster: I've found that making the main thruster the centre point (and the starting point) to your ship is a good way of determining your needs for the rest of the ship. Build to the speed that you want your ship to go to, and then add power/crew/manouvering thrusters as needed. 7b] *Alternative* Build your crew requirements first: Work out how many turrets you want, and the build the crew to meet those requirements. Then add the other systems till you get a good balance. Edit: If you've got some good tips, add them to this thread and I'll try and collate them into this top post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchey Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Thanks for sharing. I was enjoying these videos, back in 2014-2015 when i played a lot of Starmade. They are just global advices, like proportions, very helpfull i think for dump designers like me. Should have a look at them : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHavoc Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 The link isn't appearing Edit: It's okay now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchey Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 It's a youtube video i can see it embedded in the forum, with Firefox on Linux. Weird you don't. This link : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f4lz6qW6JU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkenherz Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 And there I just wondered whether I should start such a thread myself! ;) Here is my experience from a non-stop Avorion weekend. 1. Experiment and get a feeling for how the ship builder works and how the blocks attach. Don´t overdesign your first ships or you will feel quickly overwhelmed and uncontent with your first results. 2. Get clear about your "architect´s philosophy"! If "functional design first", what should the ship do for you? If "aestetic design" first: Which shape do I want to create? The final result may be similar, but it helps you on the process. 3. Ships have two (three) important properties: a) Mass (i.e. the amount of inertia when maneuvering, longer hyperspace cooldown) b) Durabiliy (i.e. hitpoints added to hull, but also of each individual block), and linked to this also function (i.e. more energy, shield, etc., for each "function block"), in short, strength. c) Number of module slots. This number raises according to ship volume. A "better" ships usually means, more hitpoints and more turrets. The former is achieved via high volume and higher tier material, the latter via more module slots where you can put in modules which add turret capacities. Thus, the bigger the ship, the better it is (but also, more clumsy). Thus, again, you aim for highest volume with as little mass as possible, but also need to get clear about how many hitpoints you want in the end. Downside is, the more mass a ship has, the more clumsy it will get. Lighter materials and more thusters can compensate a bit, but hyperspace cooldown suffers. If you just want to trade, you usually just aim for big cargo holds and a little protection for during the occosional required retreat. If you just want to salvage or mine, a small fast scout ship can do. 4. Understand available materials. Figures are here http://www.avorion.net/forum/index.php?topic=856.msg4709#msg4709 Rule of thumb: a) Titanium (tier 2) should replace all iron (tier 1), because it is better on all aspects. b) Naonite (tier 3) is stronger, but also slightly more massive then Titanium, i.e. it could be restricted to function blocks and armor, where it´s higher strength also increases the block´s functional output. c) Trinium (tier 4) should completely replace Titanium and Naonite because it is both stronger and lighter. d) Xanion (tier 5) is more massive but also stronger than Trinium, see b) e) Ogonite (tier 6) is very massive, and the text hints that it has exceptional good armor blocks. f) Avorion (tier 7) is strongest, less massive than Ogonite, so it should replace all other materials, except for availablity or cost issues, of course. However, it could be that Ogonite armor blocks would still be stronger (unconfirmed). Higher tier material has new function blocks. a) Titanium adds generator and integrity field blocks. b) Naonite adds hyperspace and shield blocks. c) Trinium adds fighter hangar and computational blocks (the latter adds more module slots). d) Ogonite does *not* have shield blocks. 5. Understand each block type and function. Function blocks have very low durability compared to normal blocks (cargo, crew, solar). Armor has 3,5times normal durability. Details see here: http://wiki.avorion.net/index.php?title=Block Some interesting details: Best ratio of mass vs. durability for a given volume are cargo (0,3 mass, 1 durability) and armor blocks (1,6 mass, 3,5 durability). This also means, if you just aim for volume, use lots of cargo volume, if you just aim for hitpoints, use lots of armor volume. Solar and (currently still) thruster blocks get better with surface area, not volume as usual. I.e. very thin large area blocks are most efficient. 7. Each ship has a basic limited turret capacity of 1-1 (+1). I.e. one weapon turret, one miner or salvager or repair turret, and one for either the former or the latter. (I sometimes also get a basic number of 2-2, but don´t understand the conditions). This basic number can only increased via specific modules, i.e. indirectly via volume = module slots. 8. Energy production and consumption must be balanced out. For boosts and hyperdrive recharge, you will need excess energy generation capacity, or the more situational batteries. For recharging batteries, you also need excess energy generation. 9. Have a look on the data about your ship while laying out its functions. Stopping and pitch/yaw thrust are not to be underestimated. The more and larger function blocks you have, the more expensive crew you need. Bring it in line with the above point 2. 10. Ship design should first layout a spine and then get the functions layered on. If want to achieve a certain high ship volume and you can afford it, more volume goes into cargo capability and/or hyperspace reach. Final touches consists of the tuning of thrust and maneuverability. Add some color. 11. If daydreaming during your job, have paper ready. You will have filled out multiple sheets with ship layout and concept art before you realize. 8) EDIT: Some additions. If ppls find this helpful I could volunteer this text for a wiki-guide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchey Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Excellent reading, you should definitively paste it to the wiki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageThe13th Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 7. Each ship has a basic limited turret capacity of 1-1 (+1). I.e. one weapon turret, one miner or salvager or repair turret, and one for either the former or the latter. (I sometimes also get a basic number of 2-2, but don´t understand the conditions). This basic number can only increased via specific modules, i.e. indirectly via volume = module slots. EDIT: Some additions. If ppls find this helpful I could volunteer this text for a wiki-guide? Ships that have all turret slots will show those slot being available for both armed and unarmed turrets at the same time. So if a ship has 2 armed, 2 unarmed, and 4 all slots it will tell you you have 6 armed and 6 unarmed turret slots. When you eat into those all slots you see the number of the other type go down. So if I add 4 armed turrets to that same ship I will see 4/6 armed and 0/4 unarmed slots remaining. The way the information is presented if confusing and could use some improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchey Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 3] Use the pallette to resize your whole ship: Say you make a ship that is a fighter size, and it's a good design but too small. Select all the ship and ctrl-c, then open the pallette and paste with ctrl-v. Then you can make a new ship, and using the pallette you can select the template and adjust the size before pasting. *Caution on the blocks you use though, make sure to take note of the template material selector. What and where is "the pallette" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedamngod Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I have moved the topic to the user guides forum as I think it's more appropriate here and won't get drowned by other submissions as easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHavoc Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 3] Use the pallette to resize your whole ship: Say you make a ship that is a fighter size, and it's a good design but too small. Select all the ship and ctrl-c, then open the pallette and paste with ctrl-v. Then you can make a new ship, and using the pallette you can select the template and adjust the size before pasting. *Caution on the blocks you use though, make sure to take note of the template material selector. What and where is "the pallette" ? When you bring up the menu to show you all the blocks and materials, you see a section below the turrets. That's the palette; the best way to learn is by doing...so select a few blocks that are joined together. Copy and then paste them into a free slot in the palette, you'll see an icon appear in green showing your selection. You can then re-use it (and resize it, and change materials too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terradoss Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 3] Use the pallette to resize your whole ship: Say you make a ship that is a fighter size, and it's a good design but too small. Select all the ship and ctrl-c, then open the pallette and paste with ctrl-v. Then you can make a new ship, and using the pallette you can select the template and adjust the size before pasting. *Caution on the blocks you use though, make sure to take note of the template material selector. What and where is "the pallette" ? When you bring up the menu to show you all the blocks and materials, you see a section below the turrets. That's the palette; the best way to learn is by doing...so select a few blocks that are joined together. Copy and then paste them into a free slot in the palette, you'll see an icon appear in green showing your selection. You can then re-use it (and resize it, and change materials too) I'm having some weird issues with the pallette. I can copy paste my ships construction into it just fine, and using the "Q" key i can expand or contract the shape as necessary, however when i attempt to apply this shape to a new ship (or even an existing one just for testing purposes) the copy pasted "ship shape" seems to take the overall ship mineral requirements and split it into whatever the original construction material was and.....Iron, at a 50/50 ratio. To explain further, if i have a ship that consists of 100,000 trinium worth of construction materials (and no other mineral types at all), and i copy its shape and put it into the palette, then attempt to use the palette to apply this shape to something else, I can do it, but the resulting ship costs me 50,000 trinium and 50,000 iron and the new ship has a huge number of components that are made out of iron, instead of being pure trinium like the original ship was. I could be missing something, but I'm not completely sure whats going on here and I don't really understand it. Anyone else noticed this or know why its happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchey Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 You have to select the material in the top right corner too. I have another kind of trouble, the shape not keeping its shape if i stretch it like others shapes. Anyway it's a great tool, i need to play more with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundercraft Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 As mentioned here: How to scale a ship up or down: [*]Click the "Select Blocks By Drawing A Frame" option. [*]Drag the selection rectangle around the entire module to select everything. [*]Press [Ctrl]+"c" to copy. [*]Turn 'Safe Mode' off. [*]Delete the ship, but make sure to leave behind at least one block! (The easiest way would be to either add one more block and then deleted selected blocks, or Apply a basic cube ship .xml. See Note 1, below.) [*]Press [Ctrl]+"v" to paste. [*]Adjust your Scale Step and Grid Size as needed. [*]Hold down either W, A, S, or D while dragging the mouse to scale. Note 1: Optional (easier) way to skip steps 4 and 5; If you saved the base cube as a ship file beforehand, you could simply Apply that. I find that easier. What and where is "the pallette" ? I believe most players call them "templates" because these are all saved in the templates.xml file (found in your C:\Users\ [username] \AppData\Roaming\Avorion\ folder). How to create new templates (bottom of your build inventory window): [*]Select the blocks you want to become a template using either the "Select Blocks" option or the "Select Blocks By Drawing A Frame" option. [*]Press [Ctrl]+"c" to copy. [*]Press [space] to open the build inventory window [*]Press [Ctrl]+"v" to create a new template out of the selected blocks. Sometimes, however, I have need to convert a ship file directly into a template without the copy and paste method. (The copy and paste method may change something.) How to convert a ship .xml into a template: Create a copy / backup of your templates.xml file. (See above for location.) Open templates.xml with either Notepad or Notepad++. At the bottom of the file, right before the last </templates>, insert this code: <template accumulateHealth="true" convex="true"> </template> Open the ship .xml with either Notepad or Notepad++. Copy the ship's data, but only the stuff between the <ship accumulateHealth="true" convex="false"> and </ship> tags. Paste it between the <template> </template> tags in the code above. Save your modified templates.xml file. Profit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astroniite Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 These tips are lifesavers, thank you so much! Every day it seems like there's more and more to this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxavian Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Press [Ctrl]+"v" to paste. Adjust your Scale Step and Grid Size as needed. Hold down either W, A, S, or D while dragging the mouse to scale. My problem is I can't paste much. None of it will "snap" to the single block I leave. Any trick to getting custom shapes/ships to snap to the single block? It's a real chore to get any of my custom shapes to snap. Always wants to be inside my other blocks, never on top or on the sides of them. I've tried every snap/no-snap option possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunamik Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 When pasting multiple block, hold left ALT and move cursor to the block/side/place of your pasting objects - it will try to snap by the selected block. (I probably could word that better, but its too early in the morning here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaybe Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Question: Does anyone know which blocks give performance stat increases when upgrading materials? For example, things like armor and hull are no brainers as they just add weight and hit points based on material type. But what about crew cabins? Generators? Shields? Thrusters? Engines, etc ... Which of the energy consuming blocks get performance boosts out of higher end materials, and which ones just alter the weight and HP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundercraft Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Question: Does anyone know which blocks give performance stat increases when upgrading materials? It looks like this thread is mostly about tips for using Build Mode itself, not material or design tips. However, I would recommend that you read the Material Flavor and Analysis topic, particularly the OP, since Ranakastrasz gives such useful data on how material affects different kinds of blocks. Also: Trinium makes the best hangers, crew quarters, cargo bays, engines, and thrusters. Oganite has the best armor hp per volume, but can be replaced with trinium if you don't care for density and just want weight as it's about half the armor at half the weight. Avorion makes the best power systems hands down, so for example you use less space on shield generators for the same space spent on them at a lighter weight than you can get with xanion. This applies for power blocks like hyperspace cores, power generators, batteries, processors. ...Seems Integrity generators are based on the volume of the block used so it doesn't matter what material it's made from regarding sze of the field created. Just cost/weight should be taken into consideration. Trinium is very good for cutting weight/cost even when you are using Avorion. The same is true for Titanium before you hit the Trinium rich sectors. ...Also keep in mind that even when you have access to Avorion, Ogonite and Trinium are still quite useful. ...I think some weapons pierce through until they hit armor or exit the other side of the ship, so Ogonite is really useful there. Titanium and trinium are pretty lightweight, so using them for anything that doesn't need to be that durable makes sense. Trinium can be used to build any block, but it is still inferior to higher level blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philosaur Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Some other things to keep in mind: If you choose a block scale ending with "5", it's harder to position blocks perfectly when you have to move them halfway. That is, there's no scale or grid size of .025, or .075, or .125, etc. Don't pick a scale ending in 5 until you're doing finishing touches, and things will go smoother. I believe I understand what the different grid settings do: Global grid uses a single 3D coordinate system to snap parts. Local grid uses a separate coordinate system for each part--which should match the global grid in most cases, except when you have a part that's placed at a non-integer coordinate, or with snapping turned off. Block middle is fairly obvious--it will only snap to the centroid (I think) of a block face. I've never used the No Snap/No Grid one because that's only for philistines with no sense of order. I think people are giving some not-so-safe advice when they say "turn off safe mode and delete all blocks except one", under the assumption that whatever block is left will automatically become the root block. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. It will *sometimes* work--I think if you have a simpler ship, the system can figure out a replacement--but I destroyed my first big, time-consuming build by turning off safe mode and destroying stuff, even though I left blocks behind. Maybe this was obvious to everyone else, but it wasn't to me: when you've selected your paint color, you can either click on individual parts to paint them, or you can click and hold down and move your mouse over multiple parts, and each will get painted. Sometimes it looks like the textures double-up for a bit, but it sorts itself out after a second or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neonin Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Do not forget copy/paste! Do not forget copy/paste! Oh, and don't forget copy/paste! You have no idea how much time I've lost doing a bunch of details (turret placements in this case) individually when I finally, finally, remembered I could do one and copy/paste it into the place I want all the others. I've wasted hours, and I'm not exaggerating, on something that could be done in 10 minutes. Also the "No Snap" option for block placement can be useful for detailing and getting stuff to line up that isn't playing nice. Don't be afraid to experiment. I've built ships in Planet Explorers, Space Engineers, Empyrion, and From the Depths, and the ship designer in Avorion is by far the best I've used (opinion) when it comes to making good-looking designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akeean Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Another good tip for shipbuilding is to have a big block made out of material with high HP per volume as anchor for your turrets, since if their mounting block gets destroyed, the turrets will float off into space, leaving you defenseless. I realized the hard way as I "laminated" my first ships front with a 0.05 layer of armor plating and mounted turrets on that. Needless to say in the first fight against Aliens, they shot off my offensive power and I had to grab my stuff and run to remake my ship :) Also avoid placing turrets on the same plane close to each other, since I think they block each others line of fire, so if you want to shoot frontal, make a downwards sloped block so all turrets can shoot what is in front of you. This is better than a flat front with turrets pointing "upwards" when firing forward, since they will spend a lot of time adjusting if you change your ships tilt ever so slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrax Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Great thread ... Thanks LordHavoc. I have a few ideas that i wanted to share, and if anyone tests it out, or already has, please share and/or correct me :) Idea #1 I have been using Excel as a basic architecture support software. So far, its been working very well - i recommend for any builder, especially novices, as a solid plan when u start pays off in the end. Idea #2 I approach my ship construction in three phases Phase One - Functional Layout Phase Two - Armour build Phase Three - Copy/paste (of components built in bulk, separately) Idea #3 Not a necessary step, but in my Excel sketch each type of block (thrusters, generators, batteries, etc) each have an assigned colour. After my Phase 1, i can easily scan the "organs" of my ship design to ensure everything is there - plus with the colours its easy to see. As a bonus, when adding more functional blocks in a later build, its much easier to see what i have and make improvements on the fly Idea #4 (not yet tested) In my Excel design, i can get a pretty good estimate of my core blocks "volume". When building to a specific dimension to attain that added slot, i can calculate the "drawn volume" during my design, to see whether i need to scale up a little - even before i go in-game to build the design. By the way - thanks everyone. I enjoy hearing about your ideas Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrax Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Also the "No Snap" option for block placement can be useful for detailing and getting stuff to line up that isn't playing nice. My gosh - thank you Neonin ... Awesome suggestion :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antibak Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Here is an easy way I discovered to change the material type of specific parts on your ship using any XML editor. This saves you the pain of tearing down and into your ship hull to upgrade internal parts when you acquire better materials. Also, you can select specific parts to upgrade one type at a time as you slowly acquire the materials needed from mining or salvaging, etc, etc. Please refer to Kane Heart's video on XML editing. Here is what to do= Anyone that has seen the XML details on the ships that we build and have watched Kane Heart's video knows that there is a line of info for each block you use to build a ship. Turns out the [index "x"] right before the [Material "x"] is the designation/type for the actual block. Here is a short list of some of the block types. (I was only interested in upgrading certain parts so I did not bother listing all the part designators below just yet. (Anyone else interested in completing the list?) Index "X" x= 1 Hull with windows and the first core block. x= 2 Hull with no windows x= 3 Engine X= 5 Cargo x= 6 Crew x= 7 Thrusters x=8 Armor Block x= 104, 105, 106, 107 Edge and corner armor x= 100, 101, 102, 103 Edge and corner Hull x= 150, 151, 152, 153, 154 Glow Pieces X= 50 Shield X= 51 Energy Container X= 52 Generator X= 53 Integrity Field X= 54 Computer Core X= 55 Hyperspace Core Using the "replace all" command in an XML editor you can do this as an example: To change all generator components from Naonite to Trinium= Enter= Index "52" Material "2" replace with= Index "52" Material "3" save the file with a new name so you know what parts you upgraded. Go back into the game and in the ship editor select the file name then then select "apply plan". Easy Peazy:) For me, each time I acquire more material, I go back into the editor and upgrade the next component Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHavoc Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Great thread ... Thanks LordHavoc. I have a few ideas that i wanted to share, and if anyone tests it out, or already has, please share and/or correct me :) Idea #1 I have been using Excel as a basic architecture support software. So far, its been working very well - i recommend for any builder, especially novices, as a solid plan when u start pays off in the end. Hi Warrex; Have you tried InkScape? That's what I use, it's a vector based drawing program. What I do is create a mini pallette of shapes (blocks, triangles) I need and push them to the side, then use Duplicate (ctrl+D) to quickly paste them in to the shape I want. With grid and snap turned on, it lines everything up nice and quickly. Inkscape is opensource, so a person wouldn't need an Excel license. I've attached an example image of one of my projects, see how I've got solid blocks for the outer hull, and the darker blocks i use to indicate scaffolding blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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